Thom Cheney wrote:
> I believe it is in the best interest
> of the group to continue to link to Randy and Mitch's clues...
> Unless I read some damn compelling argument in favor of another, I
> support Randy's option #1.
>
> If this list is a true democracy, then let's put it to the test...

Thom, there's no reason to be so short. The site IS handled
democratically
for all the ways that it can be handled that way. This applies to all
the changes made to date, the Kids corner, the logo, the colors, the
different clues formats, etc. and all of this I know how to do through
input from the group and still be able to do it economically. But I
don't think you or most members of the group are aware of the limits
both of me and what can be done technically speaking. If you thought
they were bored and bothered by just the synopsis of the issue, wait
until
they get the details of it! I don't think we want to go there on the
main
list. We
would not have gone there at all if Graham would have monitored all
the posts, one of which suggested we not do that and I agreed and no one
opposed it. In fact, it was Randy and I who wanted to do this not on
the main list. But Graham came in without knowledge and though his
words
were nice they were also woefully ignorant of what is going on (no
insult
to Graham personally. Ignorant Graham is not. He's actually very
knowledgeable, but not about this thread.) So Graham made a mistake
and I hold nothing
against him for it. BTW, Mitch's
clues are on this site currently as we speak and as long as he does
not pull them they will remain there. Randy can put his there also
with no trouble whatever. But unless he or you or somebody else is
willing to take on the technical difficulties that will be encountered
when I make the changes that I will have to make in order to streamline
the system (again, this is technical stuff, yuk! but its something I
need to do in order to keep my sanity and have enough time to take a
shower before I go to bed)... but unless someone wants to take that
on (they can do it by group input or however they want) they should not
be arbitrating this. I respectfully ask that anyone who wants to
discuss the details of it talk to me off list or on the
technical list and I will be more than happy to share the details of the
problem. But be willing to spend some time thinking about it if you're
going to do that. Its complicated. And please have some technical
knowledge also. I think those with technical knowledge are currently
on that list, but if others of you are out there who want to be part
of this thread you're welcome to join the technical list. Just go to
http://www.pclink.com/elf/mail.htm and look on the right side of the
page
for "Technical Folks"

The simplest thing to do is for
Randy to just copy his stuff from his server to the one being used
by the rest of the group. If that was done we could skip the whole
technical issue because i would then not be encountering any of the
problems that I am (and will be) encountering if he insists on me
maintaining hard links to his server.

A while back I offered that it would be good to just consider it
a shared work, house all the clues together and go from there. I
did this because (though I knew there were technical problems with
doing it the other way) I was hoping that people would just buy in
on those terms alone and thus save me (and the talk list) a huge
hassle later on. It didn't work, so here we are. C'est Le Vie!

One more thing should be said here:
I'm not forcing anyone to put their
clues here. Nor am I holding anyone hostage. I don't feel its right
for people to be accusing me of things I am not doing and I would
appreciate it if that would stop. I don't think I am asking too
much. I'm not harboring ill feelings or resentments toward Randy
or anyone else so those of you who keep saying that stop it.
I'm tired of having to repeat over and over I have no ill feelings.
Its not fair to keep doing that to me when I keep
telling you that's not how I feel. A little trust in what I say
(what I keep saying over an over) is in order here. Unless you
know something to the contrary and have direct knowledge of it
you should not be making these accusations. It just raises
unnecessary suspicions among those who come in late to the
conversation (exactly what happened with Graham). So please stop
this.

I'm in favor of the thread ending on the main list and that
anyone with technical skills who truly wants to become involved
in that end of it can help me come up with workable solutions off
of this list. I think John and a few others may have ideas, but
its going to bore everyone here, so let's take it to the appropriate
list. If something can be worked out it will. Perhaps there
are other solutions. I don't
know. I do know this is mostly technical at this point. I'm also
tired of being accused of things I am not doing and perhaps if
we relegate the discussion to purely technical things it will get
the focus off of who may be trying to do something underhanded. I
don't feel that's happening at all. I know with certainty it is
not what I'm doing and I'm fairly certain no one else is doing it.
So please let's not take this any lower than it has already gone in
terms of insults, innuendo, suspicions, negative implications, etc.
That's the stuff that IS bothersome. Merely discussing things
and doing it respectfully is not a problem. I think
the emotional statements people are making will subside if we
take this to a technical forum. So please let's do that. Anyone
can join and then they will not have an excuse to complain because
they will know in advance they are in for something complicated
and yes, BORING. So, if you join, be prepared and do not whine
about boredom or complexities.
If you want to join that list go to http://www.pclink.com/elf/mail.htm
and look for "Technical Folks". Whatever happens there can be summed up
for everyone else on the main list (if they even care to know).

Thank you.
Dan Servatius (Dan'l)
St. Paul, MN
mailto:elf@pclink.com

ps. What prompted me to write this is the many statements that people
have made that they don't want to go here. At the same time it
should be resolved and perhaps it can be resolved with a technical
solution. Please do not accuse me yet again of not considering
other's views. Enough of you have said, "Let's not do this."
I'm listening. But obviously something needs to be done. The
problem's not going away on its own. So the next best solution
is to relegate it to Technical talk. If anyone thinks this is
not the best thing to do at this point please speak up. Otherwise
let it die on the main list as it seems to be what everyone
wants, and I, for one, did not want it to go there in the first
place.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/letterbox-usa
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications